07588: snespal: Japanese NTSC games should NOT run on the snespal machine

ID	Category [?]	Severity [?]	Reproducibility	Date Submitted	Last Update
07588	Media Support	Trivial	Always	Mar 7, 2020, 19:55	Mar 12, 2020, 13:18

Tester	ArcadeHistory	View Status	Public	Platform	MAME (Official Binary)
Assigned To		Resolution	Open	OS	Windows 10 (64-bit)
Status [?]	Confirmed			Driver	nintendo/snes.cpp
Version	0.219	Fixed in Version		Build	64-bit
		Fixed in Git Commit		Github Pull Request #

Summary	07588: snespal: Japanese NTSC games should NOT run on the snespal machine
Description	Back in the 90s, I used to have an adaptator in the hope to play Super Famicom (NTSC) on my Super Nintendo (PAL). In MAME (screenshot attached), I can run "Final Fantasy VI" on the snespal... It won't on the real hardware.
Steps To Reproduce	Via command line : ./mame64.exe snespal ffant6j
Additional Information
Github Commit

Flags	Verified with Original
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems	snespal

Attached Files	Capture2.png (202,842 bytes) Mar 7, 2020, 19:55 Uploaded by ArcadeHistory

No.17477 Tafoid Administrator Mar 9, 2020, 22:18	Some games will run on PAL and NTSC and silently switch between what timing is needed internally. I suspect this might be the case here. Others will detect the PAL or NTSC and simply not allow you use to a non-video compatible region showing and appropriate "This Game Pak is not designed for your Super Famicom or SuperNES" (example using ploku on snespal). Final Fantasy 6, in this case, was never released in Europe in the PAL format to my knowledge. Wikipedia has it listed as "N/A": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VI The form factor (cartridge design/pinout or other physicial obstructions) were the reasons an adapter was needed for even the same region (eg. NTSC US and Japan). I'm not so sure this is a bug as the games 'could' be booted in other regions' machines.
No.17479 ArcadeHistory Tester Mar 9, 2020, 23:28 edited on: Mar 9, 2020, 23:30	I remember the NTSC Japanese cartridges had the same form as the PAL cartridges. Only the NTSC USA cartridges has a different form. So, you can plug a Japanese NTSC cartridge in a PAL console but absolutely no NTSC games started on a PAL console. Sometimes, a screen "This Game Pak is not designed for...." appeared,, sometimes only a black screen appeared (it was the case of Final Fantasy 6, without the adaptator). It was because PAL systems were 50hz, and NTSC systems were 60 hz. I also tested "Mega Man X3 [Euro)" on the NTSC Snes machine, the game shows the screen "This Game Pak is not designed for...." but the game starts some seconds after ! It should not... And I tested Rockman X3 (Jpn) on the snespal machine, the game runs without any warning screen and is playable ! I never saw this kind of situations with the real hardware. We always needed an adaptator in the hope to boot Imported games.
No.17484 cuavas Administrator Mar 12, 2020, 02:28	We don’t emulate the CIC (lockout) chip. The same is true for the NES. This well-known. (Japanese and North American SuFami/SNES use compatible CIC chips but different cartridge form factors. Japanese cartridges will work in North American SNES if you remove the keying tab from the console that prevents insertion. North American cartridges will work in Japanese SuFami if you remove the board from the cartridge shell so it fits in the slot. PAL SNES uses an incompatible CIC chip so the cartridges are not interchangeable even though they’re the same physical shape as Japanese cartridges. But since we don’t emulate the CIC, there’s nothing stopping them from working in MAME.)