01232: aliens: Comparing to the pcb, the music in mame is slower.

ID	Category [?]	Severity [?]	Reproducibility	Date Submitted	Last Update
01232	Sound	Minor	Have not tried	Feb 15, 2008, 14:44	Dec 17, 2021, 10:14

Tester	Kold666	View Status	Public	Platform
Assigned To	aaron	Resolution	Fixed	OS
Status [?]	Resolved			Driver	konami/aliens.cpp
Version	0.123u1	Fixed in Version	0.239	Build
		Fixed in Git Commit	d187a28	Github Pull Request #

Summary	01232: aliens: Comparing to the pcb, the music in mame is slower.
Description	Comparing to the pcb, the music in mame is slower. I verified the clocks and they are right for the sound section, so it must be something other.
Steps To Reproduce
Additional Information
Github Commit

Flags	Verified with Original
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems	aliens

Attached Files	aliens0123u1gre.wma (602,571 bytes) Feb 15, 2008, 14:45
	aliens_temp.mp3 (323,376 bytes) Nov 9, 2016, 09:05 Uploaded by Fujix (Compressed) original posted by Mamesick
	aliens_fix_overclock.mp3 (502,944 bytes) Nov 9, 2016, 09:05 Uploaded by Fujix (Compressed) original posted by Mamesick

related to	04825	Resolved	aaron	vendetta: In MAME the music tempo is slower than real PCB
related to	00413	Resolved	aaron	crimfght: The speed of the music is playing ever so slightly too slowly.
related to	03754	Resolved	aaron	scontra, scontraj: Flaws in sound emulation
related to	07078	Resolved	aaron	tmnt, tmntua, tmntj: Sound or gameplay is slow if comparing with arcade
child of	08146	Resolved	aaron	contra and clones: Sound and music is slightly too slow

No.01606 nicolasa Developer Jul 13, 2008, 14:58	Did you verify all clocks with a frequency counter or just the crystals? The music speed seems to be controlled solely by the YM2151 clock. The sample is about 7% faster than MAME. That's a lot, though if the xtal on the board is a lemon, that might explain it.
No.01610 Kold666 Developer Jul 14, 2008, 07:15	Yes, I verified them. What is a lemon?
No.01614 nicolasa Developer Jul 14, 2008, 08:17	"lemon" = "defective" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lemon Now, raising the YM2151 frequency to about 3.8MHz makes MAME match the sample. However, if the original is actually running at 3.57MHz we have a problem. I gather that all other YM2151 games work correctly in MAME, so I'd rule out a bug in the YM2151 timer emulation. One possible difference is that most games use the YM2151 interrupts to drive the speed, while Aliens appears to poll the timer registers.
No.01616 Kold666 Developer Jul 14, 2008, 09:52	The Xtal is the same 3.57mhz used on many other konami games and I had the chance to hear other Aliens pcbs with the same music tempo difference. Maybe like you said there is a difference in how Aliens use the timers
No.01617 Kold666 Developer Jul 14, 2008, 09:58 edited on: Jul 14, 2008, 09:59	I add also an information about an hardware bug affecting one of the tilemap custom chips (I don't remember which is, I have to check at home later). If this tilemap chip is the 1989 revision, during the fades (for example in the title screen) there is see an annoying graphic glitch which resemble a sort of white noise in the upper half of the screen. its duration matches the fade. If the chip is the 1988 revision everything is ok.
No.01626 nicolasa Developer Jul 14, 2008, 15:23	I think I have isolated the timer problem, which might affect a large number of games. Still have to see how to fix it. Could you also check the main CPU clock please? That would be pin 11 of the 052526 if I'm not mistaken. Regarding the hardware bug, if you want you could file it separately together with screenshots. These 1988 and 1989 revisions, are they revision of the same chip ID? Or different IDs? (that is 051961 vs. 052109)
No.01630 Kold666 Developer Jul 14, 2008, 16:58 edited on: Jul 14, 2008, 16:59	I have borrowed it, I'll check asap. btw, if I am not wrong, it was 12mhz and Guru told me it was divided internally by 4... Can the timer problem have something to do with jackal music? As for the hardware bug, the revision belongs to the same chip, the tilemap generator chip used on Aliens (don't remember which is right now). I don't think it should be posted because it's an chip hardware bug which mame can't reproduce.
No.01653 Kold666 Developer Jul 16, 2008, 16:49	I just measured pin 11 and it's 12mhz
No.08465 Fortuna Tester Apr 26, 2012, 17:35	same chip but with different mhz?
No.08519 Machone Tester May 8, 2012, 04:41	This fix must not have made it in. The music is still too slow in u8 as compared to the attached sample.
No.08520 Tafoid Administrator May 8, 2012, 04:46	It's entirely possible something else happened along the way to influence it - I can assure you the patch did get added to the source, in any case.
No.08521 Machone Tester May 8, 2012, 04:56	Ok, but at this moment in time the bug still exists so perhaps this one shouldn't be set to resolved quite yet.
No.08530 Tempora Tester May 9, 2012, 07:07	Will have to agree that "Fixed in Version 0.145u8" needs to be revoked because the bug is still present.
No.08532 Mamesick Senior Tester May 9, 2012, 10:54	Sorry, my fault. I'm fixing it for real this time. But since I'm not a good judge please test the attached "aliens_temp.wav"....
No.08535 Machone Tester May 9, 2012, 14:15	Hi! Thanks for looking into this bug, but unfortunately "aliens_temp.wav" is still too slow compared to the original sample. Also, it's worth pointing out that this slow tempo bug also affects some other Konami games such as Super Contra, Rock n Rage and probably many others.
No.08536 Tempora Tester May 10, 2012, 03:31 edited on: May 15, 2012, 00:26	Second that. The fix doesn't sound any different from the way it is now. Listen to the background beat at the 22 second mark onward in the reference recording. That frantic pace in the beat is the reference point because right now the music is too somber and serious because of the slow tempo.